Curse

reetkever · Jun 27, 2007, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

No, he did not say that only lucky people are casual players, he said that - and I agree with him - anyone who farms is not a casual player (and casual players don't farm). I assume that in all this farming means solo-farming - since the drops did not decrease for groups - and solo-farming is not something the casual player will do.

If you need to farm to meet your needs then I doubt your needs are casual. You don't need to farm solo to play this game.

Ehm, I do have to farm to play this game. Isn't doing fun stuff playing the game? Why can only lucky people who get great drops do nice stuff?

And I am a casual player, but I HAVE to farm. I have no choice. So A-Net makes the game better for casual players, but at the same time forces everyone to farm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Buying keys is not casual. Keys are money pits, you spend more gold on buying the keys then you get back from the items.

So? A-net wants to improve the game for casual gamers, they say. So why can't we still do anything except the storyline? With farming, at least we could invest a little time and in return do fun stuff, but now, that has been killed, and we got nothing in return.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Loot scaling improved the situation for the casual players, since the drops haven't been reduced for full sized parties. Since the prices in general have dropped, the casual player can now buy more for the same amount of combat and questing.

That's the Exemption of items, not the loot scaling. The loot scaling made prices go up, because less and less came into the market, making it more rare and thus worth more. The scaling didn't improve things for full party's either, since the drops are the same. They only made it worse for people not playing with 7 other ppl.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

On the Battle Islands

That isn't before you arrive in LA. And even then, monsters in PvE work different than targets in the Battle Islands. What works there might suck in PvE, and vica versa.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Yes, you may.
It's a money sink and it means your needs for funding are not the same as those of a casual player. But I am sorry that you have to farm more now for those keys, that the scaling affected your gameplay negatively.

I am a casual player as well. I play 2 hours or less per day, and when I farmed, it was only 3 minutes. Everybody farms even 1 run per week to gain cash. So you're saying we're all hardcore farmers?

The scaling affected everyone's gameplay negatively.

It's the exemption list and hard mode-better drops that make things better for LUCKY PEOPLE ONLY.

kradens · Jun 27, 2007, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Sword Keeper

Agreed.
As for the Loot Scaling Poll.

Granted.

I got a screenshot of me just finished killing 23 vermin and only receiving 5 drops. Do i need to say more?

please. im begging someone to put a poll up regarding player preference of the old loot system vs the new one.

from what im reading. there's this "casual player" debate that keeps cropping upas the main validation for loot scaling.

but im not a casual player. im the type of guy who likes collecting loads and loads of armours and weapons, that's the way i play the game, this is just what i find fun, my ranger has 2 15k sets and an ancient set alone : P - i enjoy farming, it's a challenge for me, and i get a kick out of being able to generate lots of money - and lets face it, i need it with the way i play the game.

and besides, after wiping out most of the grawl in witmanns folly and receiving items that altogether gave me around 400g...........come on.

come on someone. put the poll up so that Anet can see there are a lot of us who want the old system back.

the_jos · Jun 27, 2007, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Everybody farms even 1 run per week to gain cash.
...
The scaling affected everyone's gameplay negatively.

Gee, I must be one of the lucky people, since both statements do not apply to me.

A lot of people here on the forum and at the moment specially in the loot scaling threads are forgetting one thing.
That is that guru and other sites do NOT represent the entire GW community.

I know quite a number of people on my friendslist don't care at all about loot scaling, since they only play in full size parties.
They don't visit forums, but are just happily playing the game.

Making a poll is futile, since you get the reactions from those that are not happy with the situation. You won't see a lot of people that agree or just don't care.
Why? Those people are not on the forum, since the active forum users are only a small part of the entire GW community.

Every time a 'nerf' is made, a part of the community will cry out loud, because they think their game is too much affected by the change.
There always must be someone to blame.
For skill changes, we blame the PvP community and for farming nerfs we blame the bots. In both cases we blame A-net for not doing their job right.

Bots are not a real problem (though very visible).
They generate a steady stream of cash (24x7) in the economy, but only if they can sell this.
If I recall, A-net banned more than 5.000 bots in one month, of which we don't know how many were able to sell their gold ingame.

However.....
According to Reetkever: "Everybody farms ....."
What do you think generates more new gold in the game?
5.000 bots (or even 10.000, if you really think there are many more active bots in the game, please give some statistics).
Or hundreds of thousands of players that farm (even if it's only once a week) because they can't afford anything (at least, that's what I hear on this forum).
Since those human farmers are active in the game, they most probably spend most of this gold (else people should not be complaining, but just burning the cash in their vault). This is what causes inflation, not some E-bayed gold.

It's my opinion that A-net made a good change with loot scaling.
And I also know about 1% of the forum users here at guru will agree that.
The other 99% either does not care or will strongly oppose.

KANE OG · Jun 28, 2007, 12:30 AM // 00:30

The majority of people in the US don't freakin turn out to vote either, but the views of the ones that due clue you in on the percentage of people that give a rats ass (That didn't make ANY sense, I know) LOL. Anyway, the percentage here on Guru seem to want the old system back.

I really don't care myself. I've turned farmer in HM and that's that.

KANE

kradens · Jun 28, 2007, 07:55 AM // 07:55

just because it doesn't affect you or your friends, doesn't make it a better change, and it also doesn't make it less important.

and besides. what specifically do YOU have to lose as a player if the old system is back? you say you play in teams of 8, so advocating the old system will 1) not affect your play style and 2) get you more drops when ur soo-ing - which u might decide to try in the near future.

so stop putting us old-system guys down, were not advocating a bad change. this is a change in the BASIC gameplay of the game, it's not one skill, or that monster mob now runs from aoe......so it's easy to see why there is so much shock and negativity towards it.

jeeezez, sometimes i think there are people out there who are getting PAID to say loot scaling is the best thing since the wheel (-__-)

and no poll is ever futile. so what if it will be a bitchfest of negativety? wheres the rule that said polls always had to be happy? and doesn't the expectation of negative responses SUGGEST to us the general feeling of the gaming populace towards loot scaling?

so seriously - i would really urge someone to put it up.

together, we can shine a light in Anets eye : P

drago34 · Jun 28, 2007, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Wow, you anti-loot scaling people need to give the hell up. The only people I see complaining are the people that were probably WAY too invested into ecto and rarities. Too bad you lose, GG.

kradens · Jun 28, 2007, 02:17 PM // 14:17

seriously? who's paying you to be pro-loot-scaling?

cos i just dont buy your arguments drago43. tell me? how has life become BETTER since loot scaling?

all drops drop as they normally would
white items scale.

so the money u pro-lootscalers are making, you would have made anyway, and prehaps u would have made more without scaling of white items.

look. here's how i see it.

i want to get an ascended armor set.

before loot scaling this would take me around a week of farming.

now WITH loot scaling, i'd be lucky if i can scrounge up the money in a month, i'd have to do run after run after run after run.......for the same amount.

U just cant keep the loot dropping this LOW, and expect us to fork over the same amount of money for ascended armor. thats the same as keeping the rent the same and decreasing our wages.

SOMETHING has to change. either fixed prices go down, or loot scaling goes off.....but then my argument is, having low prices and low drops is the SAME as having high prices and high drops....

so no matter WHAT Anet do, the ONLY way they can win against the bots is if they have High prices and Low drops.....(which is the current situation)...this way, demand outweighs supply and resources of the bot farmers. but it's at the cost of making everyone else suffer in the game.

are you catching my drift?

Shayne Hawke · Jun 28, 2007, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngstar

Trading is dead and we can face it. No one will buy an item for what it is worth nowadays. I've been playing GW since the day it came out and have never had problems selling my items, like I do today. I can't even sell a popular green for 80% of what it's worth on Guru. It may just be me. Maybe I'm a bad trader, but I don't think that is the case.

Of course, there is another argument. The lower drops urges people to play through the game and not farm. Well that could be a valid point, however I have already beat the campaigns and get quite sick of playing through the game again. I enjoy finding a nice spot to farm, trying to find a build that can solo something. But when the drops are as low as they are, I can't farm because I lack motivation.

There is still other ways to make money, but farming was one the most enjoyable ones for me. If you nerf farming, why not just nerf everything? I mean, people are making big profits chest running, will that ever be stopped? We might as well nerf everything that generates a profit.

Want to stop inflation created by botting companies? Put in more gold sinks, I don't think it could be put simpler that that. Gold sinks are an effective way to get rid of a lot of the excess money generated by gold farming bots.

All in all, I just don't believe that the general GW community should be punished for what players who break the rules are doing. If Anet really wants to stop the botters then they should probably BAN THEM.

I think you fail to realize how much work ANet has to put in just to catch and stop all of the bots that are in the game. If we assume that your idea of more bots in GW is correct, than we can also assume that to limit that number, ANet will also have to do more work in order to catch these criminals. Sorry, but ANet has other things to worry about, such as the weekend events that keep people moving to different parts of the game, the upcoming expansion and sequel, and routine skill changes to fix the metagame. ANet has better things to do than let everyone sit at the computer and ban everyone using a bot.

Now, for the rest of your argument, it just flops on itself to me. The whole time you're moaning about nerfed loot scaling, you speak about how you can still get good prices in the Auction section of the Guru, and how chest running hasn't been nerfed. If you've discovered these alternatives, then there are certainly other ways of getting the loot that you want. Of course, you'll never do that, because you lack motivation. That's your problem, not ANet's.

If you're playing the game solely for the purpose of achieving mass wealth, and you're finding yourself depressed by the game because you can't get that, stop playing. Uninstall Guild Wars, put it away, and bring it back out when GW:EN is released. You don't have to bother yourself with the task of doing more runs just to make whatever profit you "need" to make up whatever you missed.

I was using my Rit today to get from Moddok Crevice to The Kodash Bazaar. I got a gold in the mission and a green from one of the bosses on the way. I have also spent lots of time recently farming for the LB title with my Ranger, and he's been able to get plenty of golds, as well as some points for his Treasure Hunter, Wisdom, Lucky, and Unlucky title tracks. Yes, I was doing chest runs. Out of that, I've scored a few greens, almost enough golds to get the first rank in both Wisdom and Treasure Hunter, and a number of rare weapon modifiers, which I'm selling on the Guru right now.

There are other ways to make money. Loot scaling was not the only way, and if you have a problem with that, do something else. The value of every item did not get multiplied by 8, just because it's a little harder to get. Try to sit back and enjoy Guild Wars instead of just playing for wealth.

Finally, you mentioned using gold sinks in order to get rid of bot gold. I'm not sure exactly how that would work. It seems to me that gold sinks would increase demand for gold, and yet, the bots wouldn't be using them. Supply stays the same and demand rises, so they get to jack up their fees even more. That's a loss, as far as I can see.

Loviatar · Jun 28, 2007, 10:03 PM // 22:03

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kradens

seriously? who's paying you to be pro-loot-scaling?
all drops drop as they normally would
white items scale.
so the money u pro-lootscalers are making, you would have made anyway, and prehaps u would have made more without scaling of white items.

look. here's how i see it.

i want to get an ascended armor set.

before loot scaling this would take me around a week of farming.

the designers never intended 15K work to earn it vanity armor to be bought with only a weeks work .

now WITH loot scaling, i'd be lucky if i can scrounge up the money in a month, i'd have to do run after run after run after run.......for the same amount.

a month is much more like it as you can actually say i well............worked to earn it.

Quote:

U just cant keep the loot dropping this LOW, and expect us to fork over the same amount of money for ascended armor.

you are supposed to work for vanity armor or everybody would have it

the loot drop has not changed for casual players in groups and the solo can still get OFFICIALLY NOT A GUESS at least twice his rightful share not the wrong quote of 1/8

[QUOTE]SOMETHING has to change. either fixed prices go down, or loot scaling goes off.....but then my argument is, having low prices and low drops is the SAME as having high prices and high drops....[/QUOTE]

no way sherlock...........no way at all

Quote:

so no matter WHAT Anet do, the ONLY way they can win against the bots is if they have High prices and Low drops.....(which is the current situation)...this way, demand outweighs supply and resources of the bot farmers. but it's at the cost of making everyone else suffer in the game.

wrong as prices are down not up.

this should have been done a year and a half ago.

here is what the head designer says

Quote:

Mike O'Brien, head of the Design Team

Quote:

There are three ways that certain players earn more gold than the average. The first and most obvious way is that, because everyone plays the game differently, some players are able to find unusually profitable areas to hunt in, or tricky strategies for killing a lot of monsters quickly. The search for the most effective way to play can be a fun part of the game for everyone -- we all like to see how well our characters can do, and whether we can tweak our characters to be better than they were previously -- and so we at ArenaNet don’t consider this a problem unless it’s extreme. Although a very knowledgeable or tricky player may be able to earn gold twice as fast as the average, this tends not to create a significant problem, because prices for items in the player-driven economy will still stay at levels where normal players can afford them. But sometimes differences in the distribution of wealth can be extreme; a group of players can find ways to earn gold ten times as fast as the average player. In this case, prices can rise to a level where normal players can’t afford to trade for items anymore. Then we have a problem, and we need to adjust the game to bring wealth distribution back into normal ranges. We constantly monitor the game, so we know when a certain place or technique is being heavily exploited. When an issue like this becomes too severe, we make tweaks as necessary to bring things back in line.

the only players guaranteed to have a royal bitchfest as proven since the infamous Riverside nerf long ago are the hardcore farmers however they choose to describe themselves with casual being the most laughable

reetkever · Jun 28, 2007, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

Gee, I must be one of the lucky people, since both statements do not apply to me.

A lot of people here on the forum and at the moment specially in the loot scaling threads are forgetting one thing.
That is that guru and other sites do NOT represent the entire GW community.

I know quite a number of people on my friendslist don't care at all about loot scaling, since they only play in full size parties.
They don't visit forums, but are just happily playing the game.

Making a poll is futile, since you get the reactions from those that are not happy with the situation. You won't see a lot of people that agree or just don't care.
Why? Those people are not on the forum, since the active forum users are only a small part of the entire GW community.

Every time a 'nerf' is made, a part of the community will cry out loud, because they think their game is too much affected by the change.
There always must be someone to blame.
For skill changes, we blame the PvP community and for farming nerfs we blame the bots. In both cases we blame A-net for not doing their job right.

Bots are not a real problem (though very visible).
They generate a steady stream of cash (24x7) in the economy, but only if they can sell this.
If I recall, A-net banned more than 5.000 bots in one month, of which we don't know how many were able to sell their gold ingame.

However.....
According to Reetkever: "Everybody farms ....."
What do you think generates more new gold in the game?
5.000 bots (or even 10.000, if you really think there are many more active bots in the game, please give some statistics).
Or hundreds of thousands of players that farm (even if it's only once a week) because they can't afford anything (at least, that's what I hear on this forum).
Since those human farmers are active in the game, they most probably spend most of this gold (else people should not be complaining, but just burning the cash in their vault). This is what causes inflation, not some E-bayed gold.

It's my opinion that A-net made a good change with loot scaling.
And I also know about 1% of the forum users here at guru will agree that.
The other 99% either does not care or will strongly oppose.

If bots are not a problem, why did A-Net nerf griffons? They definately see a threat in bots, or just ban accounts so that bots re-buy, making A-Net even richer.

Inflation doesn't matter if prices are set.

As for the weapons. If A-Net just made keys cheaper and golds drop more recently, prices would drop dramatically, and the casual player would be happy.

That having said, the economy BEFORE the update was good. So why change it?

The economy before the scaling was casual player-friendly. Now, it is hardcore farmer-friendly only.

Also, what are the benefits you got from loot scaling?

Cheaper stuff? Sorry that isn't the loot scaling. It's the exemption list, combined with the fact that PRICES DON'T EVEN DROP SO MUCH.

Or is it maybe because you already got your fortune, and you don't want other ppl to get it, too?

If A-Net just IMPROVED our drops instead, prices would've gone up a bit, too, but the improved drops made up for this.
It would be EASIER, however, to buy the set-price things (which are the problem).

Also, a poll would do fine, cause the percentage of unhappy people on the forum is less than in the game. Seeing how most people just left, the other part is too busy farming their @$$ off, and another part doesn't even know about forums.

I'd say there are more A-Net loyal fanboi's here than there are unhappy players.

Saying how people should work for vanity is BS. A-net says themselves that they want to make it accesable to casual players. That was their intention of the loot scaling. But alas, another failed idea of A-Net, cause 15K armor, 15^50 crystallines and drunkard titles are STILL not accesable.

Instead of making things accesable, they made stuff UNaccesable.

If A-Net wasn't blinded with pride, they would notice this, apolagise and then reverse the scaling back to the old days, where it was perfect. But alas....

Amy Awien · Jun 29, 2007, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by kradens

seriously? who's paying you to be pro-loot-scaling?

Gosh, is that all you an come up with? Your attempt to discredit other posters has just disqualified you and your post. Since nothing intelligent can come from you anyway, please go elsewhere and stop polluting this forum.

Amy Awien · Jun 29, 2007, 06:54 AM // 06:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

I'd say there are more A-Net loyal fanboi's here than there are unhappy players.

If all you can do is insult those that do not agree or support with your opinion, please go and do as you nick suggests.

ponk · Jul 02, 2007, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

If bots are not a problem, why did A-Net nerf griffons? They definately see a threat in bots, or just ban accounts so that bots re-buy, making A-Net even richer.

wow did you read my post???

kradens · Jul 02, 2007, 10:36 AM // 10:36

there's a divide between everyone who got their stuff before the nerf, and everyone who now have to get their stuff post-nerf.

i think the main reason why people are pissed of is because of....drum rolls.

15k armor sets.

but for various reasons, i don't expect the price of 15k sets to go down.

but here's hoping they may some day turn the 15k set to something like 10k

10k = 50k for a set
15k = 75k for a set.

thats 25k saved, and pretty much half of another 15k set : P

Alas Poor Yorick · Jul 02, 2007, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by drago34

Wow, you anti-loot scaling people need to give the ___ up.

Actually the anti-loot scalers already won. There is no more loot scaling in normal mode. I lost count how many times I have tested this but my results are always the same - after 5 kills EVERY SINGLE KILL DROPS LOOT in normal mode when killed one at a time.

There is still an inequity when many kills are made at one time. It seems you get 1/2 or less loot when killing several things at one. I don't know if this is intentional or a glitch but it has been completely consistent in all my tests as well. Kill lots of things at once get less loot. (frankly, I think it is this that is causing the greatest amount of complaining and I do think ANet needs to fix this as it will make the game very unplayable for spell caster characters.)

But once again THERE IS NO LOOT SCALING IN NORMAL MODE!

Don't believe me? - go to any areas where your character is able to kill things one at a time in solo mode - discount the first 5 kill and see how much loot drops from that point on!

Destro Maniak · Jul 06, 2007, 01:23 PM // 13:23

LOL^^ No loot scaling? I would just laught it. Then please tell why troll farm is netting less then 100gold per run. OH OH You said you kill mobs seperate. Then why is farm. Killing mobs seperate will take ages.

AND THERE SHOULD BE A POLL BUT NOT IN THIS FORUM. IN GAME.

OH btw there is a loot scaling alot. Drops at normal mode is pathetic or lets say non and loot in hm is like half of before. I really think that way

Alas Poor Yorick · Jul 06, 2007, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Whoa -- slow down.

I said loot scaling does not exist - I did not say that there is no loot nerfing.

Loot scaling was just one way of limiting the amount of loot a party gets - it was based on party size. This no longer applies in normal mode (haven't had much time to test since yesterday's update, however - so I don't know if the situation is still the same or not)

But that does not mean that I like what they replaced it with. They now seem to limit loot according to killing method. AoE damage produces less loot than melee.

I really think this is more of an abomination than scaling was.

Most of my farming is done melee style but when I play the game AoE style with full H&H I get almost nothing. I suspect those who say they clear entire areas and get only one or two drops are correct. And I think this is a horrible thing to do to monks, elementalists and other casters.

And yes, I believe scaling is still in effect for HM - just not for NM

Regardless - it won't get us anywhere debating something that no longer exists - we need to talk about the situation as it is now - and the situation as it is now is that there is no loot scaling - BUT THERE IS SOMETHING WORSE.

..L.. · Jul 06, 2007, 03:30 PM // 15:30

If the guildwars team wanted to gun at bots they should have made some simple new content thats bottable farmable it shouldnt be an ideal farmspot, but perfect for botting and boring for players something that doesnt really take all attention at itself monitor it for a month then ban the bots.

For example turn it into something thats only 55 able but make it a drag to do if your actually playing this way it should minimise the people doing it and lure most of the bots there. Make it exploitable for 1 or 2 days to lure the bots then secretly reduce it so normal players get no benefit from doing this.

If Im right this should be a solid solution for most bots that have owners that cant think as far as this.

Dougal Kronik · Jul 06, 2007, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Having to do repeated forays to scrounge up 2k fo a Superior Salvage kit is not fun.

I don't farm greens, rare materials, chest run, or trade.

I used to get any extra gold from whites and common materials - oh, that's right, they were scaled to reduce bots.

Junk the loot scaling and bring back the bots I say!

Destro Maniak · Jul 06, 2007, 04:41 PM // 16:41

sry if I misunderstood of that cause those words causal player loot nerf loot scale aoe blah blah all mixed up